Thread:Tdt30/@comment-4102115-20120714051723/@comment-4102115-20120714175227

I see what you're saying but take the opposite opinion from the same facts. I've been on this site for a year now and I see that it is the tediousness of individual manual calculations and cell-entry that kept this site slow-to-catchup with new/accurate data. Take the XP earned for constructing issue - those values still are not fixed despite the issue being discovered last year.

I see the reason there were 5 or 6 regular editors previously was because they were needed for the rediousnes of monotonous checking and data entry. When a new structure was released, a page-holder was put up, then some basic info and blank tables, then as they were upgraded and then as they broke, values were slowly filled in. By working out the apk file and Internal Formulas and using a Google Spreadsheet - you slashed the number of editors needed first by getting nearly a whole page up in an instant - but by using non-wikia outside help. I've just extended what you started but by keeping it within wikia and by simplifying it.

The hard work is in creating the templates in the first place. Maintaining the site afterwards is simple. "Disagreeing" on what formulas to use has nothing to do with templates! Quite the contrary I think. As in - you pointed out Ezcry took into account energy and roads in calculating per-cell profitability, and you haven't. So the pages where you (and I) show profitability per cell, those values differ from Ezcry's. That is so, but as Ezcry has not put that data onto individual structures pages (only the profitability page), there is currently no conflict. If there was conflict, that would need to be resolved regardless of templates. And so, contrary to templates being a hindrance, the use of templates would be a help, because if the consensus is changed to take into account energy, or weighted for time, then that change can be made once in a template and every structure will show that change instantly.

eg: When you decided to put each structure into a Size Category, you had to edit every single structure individually (and missed a few) and add that category, and also individually edit every page to make the Size a Link to that structure (which was non-standard, making the Infoboxes have just one minor cell stand-out). But: if templates were in use, a quick modification to one template and every page would have instantly updated.

The main thing on any wiki is standardisation. If we decide to show on each page Profitability taking into account an average Energy use and weighted for x time, then that should be standard across all pages. We do not want 1/3 of the pages using one calculation, 1/3 another, and 1/3 something different depending on which contributor last modified the page with an arbitrary formula.

And with Templates, and Variables, and Hidden Tables, we can add more tables (like you experimented with) with ease. So we can have all 3 variations, taking up just 3 lines:

Profitability weighted for Time: "Show"

Profitability allowing for Energy and road: "Show", etc

And potentially tables for 0, 1, 2, 3 Totems, hidden by default, and so on.

The fact is, when you've played it long enough, and something irks you enough, you get sick of it, you get sick of tediously manually updating the data. I only stepped in and stepped up after Ezcry got so fed up with the game that he left, and since he left, NO ONE has kept the Profitability and the other original pages and tables up to date. Zplough queried it, I went and created blank tables for the new data, and even simplified it down with less columns, less calculations, less manual data-entry, and (look at the history), without any templates, this keen contributor still messed up the table, then gave up and never came back to add any more info.

Understanding a wiki-table layout, getting cells to format right, rows and columns and headers and spans and classes and so on and so on is a hell-of-a-lot harder to work out and grasp than to simply enter a few bits of data into a template (once the template is set up).

If someone is advanced enough to be able to work out alternative formulas and code it into a Spreadsheet, and they want to add or modify template tables, the wikitext code will be simple enough (as I mentioned, the main hurdle was really only the lack of wikitext variables, which has now been overcome).

To be blunt, it is not sensible to say a wiki site should be dummed down and kept simple, out-of-date, containing wrong-data, because it was never coded to be easily updated and kept up-to-date.

To reiterate, Ezcry got sick of the game and left, you got to Level 43 and got bored and cut back your playing and therefore your activity on the wiki, since you discovered the Internal Formulas and shared that info and you and I updated page data quickly, accurately' and quickly (yes, I repeated quickly), it has let CMONYALL be able to spend more time on his other wikis, and it has meant half a dozen people no longer need to tediously update a new page step by step.

Another reason is that we are in holiday-quiet time. There have been no Events since St Patricks Day, so overall the game is a little quiet now.

And with the formulas you found and your and my updating the site to a great-looking site with correct and accurate data and descriptive easily-understood information pages, there has simply been less need for edits.

Why do you claim that the more edits there are to the same pages the better it is? To me that means that information is wrong is in dispute and needs to be corrected. If you look at the whole picture, and take into account the comments, people are saying they are getting more out of the site, it is easier to read, more navigable, people are still asking questions and being answered, but with information more accurate and easier to find, with meaningful links to ID tags, the versions page more simply navigated, the Pirate Chest page more concise, the Tedious Awards page dumbed down, cross-linking between relevant sections on every page, the same questions are being asked less as people are just getting the information they need - as they should from a good wiki.

Oh yeah, speaking of the Tedious Awards, the developers fixing that issue has also cut down the number of edits needed for that.

Etc, so on.

Enough waffle.